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	<title>Comments on: Unsafe Routes to School</title>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bossi</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5811</link>
		<dc:creator>Bossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5811</guid>
		<description>I am somewhat bothered in that many schools seem to be located along arterial roadways, subsequently necessitating reduced speed zones -- which often come without any geometric design to back them up.  New schools should be placed along collector roads, which are more conducive to lower-speeds and multimodal (car, bicycle, pedestrian) transportation.  On the other hand, arterials are inherently supposed to be geared toward automotive transportation; and yet we attempt to treat them as a shared environment.

Perhaps I sound like a car-centric advocate here, but the fact of it is that our mentality for the past several decades has been to move cars and only cars.  Now we're attempting to shift away from that, but our arterials are quite simply designed for cars and are not conducive toward pedestrians – especially schoolchildren.  We must decide whether we should build arterials to move traffic from one distant place to another; or if any can be converted into collector-class streets more conducive to neighborhood and multimodal traffic – requiring that people live near their work.  It is worth asking yourself whether or not the latter is even feasible in today's society.

I'm not car-centric, but I'm certainly not anti-car.  All modes have their place, and I fully support the works of the late Hans Monderman and his concepts of shared space.  However, we need to provide shared space and traffic calming where they are applicable: in environments where we *want* more equality among modes.  If we want to install devices in the name of safety while all-the-while thinking "mobility first", things will only get worse.

We need our respective planning and transportation agencies to (re)consider roadway hierarchies, uses, functions, and desired mode splits; and where schools fit into this infrastructure.  Greater cooperation should be encouraged between planning and transportation agencies to ensure that important facilities such as schools can be located in a safe area whereby the roads are designed to reflect safety moreso than mobility.

With regards to crosswalks: I outright refuse to place *any* marked crosswalk at an uncontrolled location that crosses a roadway with more than one lane in a direction.  The rationale is that while one motorist may properly yield, another motorist may either rear-end that vehicle; or could swerve to avoid and then strike the pedestrian that thinks it's clear.  I've seen this occur countless times, both as the driver, as the pedestrian, and with the latter: as the person getting hit.  The real task has been trying to sway my coworkers, supervisors, &#38; citizenry to my own opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am somewhat bothered in that many schools seem to be located along arterial roadways, subsequently necessitating reduced speed zones &#8212; which often come without any geometric design to back them up.  New schools should be placed along collector roads, which are more conducive to lower-speeds and multimodal (car, bicycle, pedestrian) transportation.  On the other hand, arterials are inherently supposed to be geared toward automotive transportation; and yet we attempt to treat them as a shared environment.</p>
<p>Perhaps I sound like a car-centric advocate here, but the fact of it is that our mentality for the past several decades has been to move cars and only cars.  Now we&#8217;re attempting to shift away from that, but our arterials are quite simply designed for cars and are not conducive toward pedestrians – especially schoolchildren.  We must decide whether we should build arterials to move traffic from one distant place to another; or if any can be converted into collector-class streets more conducive to neighborhood and multimodal traffic – requiring that people live near their work.  It is worth asking yourself whether or not the latter is even feasible in today&#8217;s society.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not car-centric, but I&#8217;m certainly not anti-car.  All modes have their place, and I fully support the works of the late Hans Monderman and his concepts of shared space.  However, we need to provide shared space and traffic calming where they are applicable: in environments where we *want* more equality among modes.  If we want to install devices in the name of safety while all-the-while thinking &#8220;mobility first&#8221;, things will only get worse.</p>
<p>We need our respective planning and transportation agencies to (re)consider roadway hierarchies, uses, functions, and desired mode splits; and where schools fit into this infrastructure.  Greater cooperation should be encouraged between planning and transportation agencies to ensure that important facilities such as schools can be located in a safe area whereby the roads are designed to reflect safety moreso than mobility.</p>
<p>With regards to crosswalks: I outright refuse to place *any* marked crosswalk at an uncontrolled location that crosses a roadway with more than one lane in a direction.  The rationale is that while one motorist may properly yield, another motorist may either rear-end that vehicle; or could swerve to avoid and then strike the pedestrian that thinks it&#8217;s clear.  I&#8217;ve seen this occur countless times, both as the driver, as the pedestrian, and with the latter: as the person getting hit.  The real task has been trying to sway my coworkers, supervisors, &amp; citizenry to my own opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkB</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5810</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5810</guid>
		<description>Harsher penalties and stricter enforcement on traffic offenses that endanger people -- start with license revocation AND vehicle confiscation -- the "higher standards for emissions" could be more easily met without the demand for acceleration in modern cars!  Sorry, people, but rights carry responsibilities with them, and if you don't live up to the responsibilities, you can' enjoy the rights!  Endangering people with your car is AT THE VERY LEAST irresponsible, and should cost you your car.  And the idea that cars have to be fast off the line, tire-screeching fast anywhere, is just overblown.  Go find a racetrack if you want to drive like that.  I'll comfort your widow.

(In case anyone didn't catch, the 'right' I'm talking about is the right to choose to own and operate and dangerously fast vehicle.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harsher penalties and stricter enforcement on traffic offenses that endanger people &#8212; start with license revocation AND vehicle confiscation &#8212; the &#8220;higher standards for emissions&#8221; could be more easily met without the demand for acceleration in modern cars!  Sorry, people, but rights carry responsibilities with them, and if you don&#8217;t live up to the responsibilities, you can&#8217; enjoy the rights!  Endangering people with your car is AT THE VERY LEAST irresponsible, and should cost you your car.  And the idea that cars have to be fast off the line, tire-screeching fast anywhere, is just overblown.  Go find a racetrack if you want to drive like that.  I&#8217;ll comfort your widow.</p>
<p>(In case anyone didn&#8217;t catch, the &#8216;right&#8217; I&#8217;m talking about is the right to choose to own and operate and dangerously fast vehicle.)</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5808</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5808</guid>
		<description>"I sometimes wonder if we simply need to put out the entire arsenal of calming. People just don’t seem to equate the presence of a school with the presence of child pedestrians."

Amen to that!

And yes...
  "often the driver is someone taking a kid to the school.."

Some of the most important work of SRTS is to get the parents who are driving to stop since they are sometimes the source of the very issues they are worried about!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I sometimes wonder if we simply need to put out the entire arsenal of calming. People just don’t seem to equate the presence of a school with the presence of child pedestrians.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amen to that!</p>
<p>And yes&#8230;<br />
  &#8220;often the driver is someone taking a kid to the school..&#8221;</p>
<p>Some of the most important work of SRTS is to get the parents who are driving to stop since they are sometimes the source of the very issues they are worried about!</p>
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		<title>By: Carice</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5804</link>
		<dc:creator>Carice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5804</guid>
		<description>I'm just pleasantly surprised that the driver was charged.  So many times the sad coda of these sad stories is that "the driver wasn't drunk and stayed at the scene, so it was _just_ an accident"  and there are no repercussions.
Yes, it was a mistake, not premeditated murder, but mistakes have consequences, and the person who commits such a grave mistake should have to suffer some of the consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just pleasantly surprised that the driver was charged.  So many times the sad coda of these sad stories is that &#8220;the driver wasn&#8217;t drunk and stayed at the scene, so it was _just_ an accident&#8221;  and there are no repercussions.<br />
Yes, it was a mistake, not premeditated murder, but mistakes have consequences, and the person who commits such a grave mistake should have to suffer some of the consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Vanderbilt</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5799</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Vanderbilt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5799</guid>
		<description>Shane raises a very good point in that drivers have acquired a certain expectancy towards looking for traffic signals, above all else.  And, on a two-lane road at least, one can tell quite clearly that both lanes have stopped (and the first vehicle thus becomes a 'crash barrier' of sorts for pedestrians).  Though I wonder where that leaves us in cases where the budget simply isn't there for signalization.  Which also raises the "black spot" problem — there may be a crash or incident at a site, and then a treatment, and then no further problems, but we often can't say for sure whether the treatment worked or it's simple 'regression to the mean.' (that DeKalb crosswalk hadn't previous had a serious incident).  Though based on the kind of news reports that I get about incidents near schools (and often the driver is someone taking a kid to the school), I sometimes wonder if we simply need to put out the entire arsenal of calming.  People just don't seem to equate the presence of a school with the presence of child pedestrians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shane raises a very good point in that drivers have acquired a certain expectancy towards looking for traffic signals, above all else.  And, on a two-lane road at least, one can tell quite clearly that both lanes have stopped (and the first vehicle thus becomes a &#8216;crash barrier&#8217; of sorts for pedestrians).  Though I wonder where that leaves us in cases where the budget simply isn&#8217;t there for signalization.  Which also raises the &#8220;black spot&#8221; problem — there may be a crash or incident at a site, and then a treatment, and then no further problems, but we often can&#8217;t say for sure whether the treatment worked or it&#8217;s simple &#8216;regression to the mean.&#8217; (that DeKalb crosswalk hadn&#8217;t previous had a serious incident).  Though based on the kind of news reports that I get about incidents near schools (and often the driver is someone taking a kid to the school), I sometimes wonder if we simply need to put out the entire arsenal of calming.  People just don&#8217;t seem to equate the presence of a school with the presence of child pedestrians.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5797</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 14:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5797</guid>
		<description>Though it's obviously the drivers fault and inattention is probably the issue I have to disagree about the certainty that a light wouldn't have helped.  For good or bad we've trained drivers to pay attention to traffic lights and it's a recognized symbol of an "important" intersection or crossing.    This driver might not have paid attention even to the traffic light but it is clear there is an issue here since the parents and neighbors lobbied to get a traffic light in this spot.

Yes, ideally we wouldn't need the traffic light and we would create an environment where we 'calm' the traffic so it is clear that people can't speed through this area but traffic engineers are even less likely to take these steps than they are to put in a traffic light.

I have an issue in my town where the traffic engineer wont put in a crosswalk because 1) it will get people crossing the spot in too many places (heaven forbid) and 2) it will give people a 'false' sense of security.  The problem is they already are crossing in that spot AND cars are less likely to stop for them because it is not marked.  We've  watched that spot many times as parents try and cross and they wait longer and have to be more aggressive than at the marked crosswalk one block down.

The concern with our traffic department is moving cars.  Until that dynamic changes people in our community will continue to fight for the crumbs of trying to get some sort safe and comfortable feeling when crossing a street- be it a traffic signal, sign, or crosswalk.

PS- I'm a Safe Routes to School coordinator so I'm interested to hear your thought on this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though it&#8217;s obviously the drivers fault and inattention is probably the issue I have to disagree about the certainty that a light wouldn&#8217;t have helped.  For good or bad we&#8217;ve trained drivers to pay attention to traffic lights and it&#8217;s a recognized symbol of an &#8220;important&#8221; intersection or crossing.    This driver might not have paid attention even to the traffic light but it is clear there is an issue here since the parents and neighbors lobbied to get a traffic light in this spot.</p>
<p>Yes, ideally we wouldn&#8217;t need the traffic light and we would create an environment where we &#8216;calm&#8217; the traffic so it is clear that people can&#8217;t speed through this area but traffic engineers are even less likely to take these steps than they are to put in a traffic light.</p>
<p>I have an issue in my town where the traffic engineer wont put in a crosswalk because 1) it will get people crossing the spot in too many places (heaven forbid) and 2) it will give people a &#8216;false&#8217; sense of security.  The problem is they already are crossing in that spot AND cars are less likely to stop for them because it is not marked.  We&#8217;ve  watched that spot many times as parents try and cross and they wait longer and have to be more aggressive than at the marked crosswalk one block down.</p>
<p>The concern with our traffic department is moving cars.  Until that dynamic changes people in our community will continue to fight for the crumbs of trying to get some sort safe and comfortable feeling when crossing a street- be it a traffic signal, sign, or crosswalk.</p>
<p>PS- I&#8217;m a Safe Routes to School coordinator so I&#8217;m interested to hear your thought on this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5792</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5792</guid>
		<description>My experience in Atlanta was that it was extremely hostile to pedestrians.  Traffic would normally stop well past the wide white 'stop' line, blocking the pedestrian crossing at lights.  Many sidewalks end leaving pedestrians stranded.  A crosswalk to carry pedestrians from a bus stop to a mall landed them in the bushes on the mall side.  Pedestrians are truly second class citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My experience in Atlanta was that it was extremely hostile to pedestrians.  Traffic would normally stop well past the wide white &#8217;stop&#8217; line, blocking the pedestrian crossing at lights.  Many sidewalks end leaving pedestrians stranded.  A crosswalk to carry pedestrians from a bus stop to a mall landed them in the bushes on the mall side.  Pedestrians are truly second class citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: chrismealy</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/02/04/unsafe-routes-to-school/#comment-5786</link>
		<dc:creator>chrismealy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=580#comment-5786</guid>
		<description>Shirley Jackson should have had the villagers run people over instead of stoning them to death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shirley Jackson should have had the villagers run people over instead of stoning them to death.</p>
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