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	<title>Comments on: Political Engineers</title>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 21:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: HCHarris</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7970</link>
		<dc:creator>HCHarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7970</guid>
		<description>Since engineering works with development of workable things, whatever you may be working with, and also with writing such things as specifications and criteria which must be internally consistent you get a great appreciation of the functionality of natural things and the difficulty of writing an internally consistent document.  Likewise true in most scientific endevours.

Therefore, if it were not for the indoctrination to the contrary you get from the educational system, those in engineering and science should be overwhelmingly beleivers in an Omnipitent Creator, whether from a Christian or a Jewish perspective, as the internal coherence of the Bible would also be impossible without the hand of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since engineering works with development of workable things, whatever you may be working with, and also with writing such things as specifications and criteria which must be internally consistent you get a great appreciation of the functionality of natural things and the difficulty of writing an internally consistent document.  Likewise true in most scientific endevours.</p>
<p>Therefore, if it were not for the indoctrination to the contrary you get from the educational system, those in engineering and science should be overwhelmingly beleivers in an Omnipitent Creator, whether from a Christian or a Jewish perspective, as the internal coherence of the Bible would also be impossible without the hand of God.</p>
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		<title>By: maxpower</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7874</link>
		<dc:creator>maxpower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7874</guid>
		<description>All I can say is traffic must suck in Iran.  Ahmadinejad is a poor leader and had to be an even worse engineer.  His idea of traffic control is tear gas.  Real engineers discuss politics but don’t pay to play.  Poor engineers become politicians so they can get their slice of the pie from every project</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say is traffic must suck in Iran.  Ahmadinejad is a poor leader and had to be an even worse engineer.  His idea of traffic control is tear gas.  Real engineers discuss politics but don’t pay to play.  Poor engineers become politicians so they can get their slice of the pie from every project</p>
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		<title>By: azf</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7816</link>
		<dc:creator>azf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7816</guid>
		<description>The notion that engineering is somehow interested in black/white answers is quite false. The quantification and communication of uncertainty is what (should) reign supreme, at least within recent curricula.

This might be pushing more would-be traffic engineers to ideas that challenge their previously mobility driven counterparts. Alt fuels and vehicles sure are sexy, but travel behavior research and reducing VMT are going to be part of any sustainable transportation future. What could be more "liberal" than changing transportation behavior?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The notion that engineering is somehow interested in black/white answers is quite false. The quantification and communication of uncertainty is what (should) reign supreme, at least within recent curricula.</p>
<p>This might be pushing more would-be traffic engineers to ideas that challenge their previously mobility driven counterparts. Alt fuels and vehicles sure are sexy, but travel behavior research and reducing VMT are going to be part of any sustainable transportation future. What could be more &#8220;liberal&#8221; than changing transportation behavior?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C. Moeur</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7804</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C. Moeur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7804</guid>
		<description>Remember, though, that traffic engineering is the one discipline in civil engineering that is dominated by human factors issues, which makes it the least "precise" of these branches - it's the old saying that most of our job is "adjusting the nut that holds down the steering wheel". Sure, there's lots of formulae and equations, but they're sure not as predictable and precise as the ones used by our structural colleagues.

While my personal politics do tend slightly to starboard, I don't see a political monoculture in my field. My colleagues range from out &#38; out socialists all the way to those who suspect Objectivism is a government plot.  :)

Engineers can be excellent politicians, just like engineers can be excellent artists. It has more to do with cultivating a parallel skill set, and using good judgment in applying each approach (engineering or political) appropriately.

And as for libertarians working for government? I've seen it throughout my career - there are quite a few. It's actually a good thing, in that they typically inject a bit of in-house skepticism to the latest grandiose plan of how the agency will Make Things Better.

rcm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, though, that traffic engineering is the one discipline in civil engineering that is dominated by human factors issues, which makes it the least &#8220;precise&#8221; of these branches - it&#8217;s the old saying that most of our job is &#8220;adjusting the nut that holds down the steering wheel&#8221;. Sure, there&#8217;s lots of formulae and equations, but they&#8217;re sure not as predictable and precise as the ones used by our structural colleagues.</p>
<p>While my personal politics do tend slightly to starboard, I don&#8217;t see a political monoculture in my field. My colleagues range from out &amp; out socialists all the way to those who suspect Objectivism is a government plot.  <img src='http://www.howwedrive.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Engineers can be excellent politicians, just like engineers can be excellent artists. It has more to do with cultivating a parallel skill set, and using good judgment in applying each approach (engineering or political) appropriately.</p>
<p>And as for libertarians working for government? I&#8217;ve seen it throughout my career - there are quite a few. It&#8217;s actually a good thing, in that they typically inject a bit of in-house skepticism to the latest grandiose plan of how the agency will Make Things Better.</p>
<p>rcm</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7779</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7779</guid>
		<description>First, engineer's are bad politicians. Why? Easy. We hate politics. Those good at politics generally are bad engineers but move up quickly. Good Engineer's want practical flexible adaptable solutions that work instead of cutting corners or playing for political gain.

The short version is: few engineer's are in politics because they'd rather fix the problems. There is a good despair.com saying... if you aren't part of the solution there is good money in prolonging the problem. It's so true it's not even funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, engineer&#8217;s are bad politicians. Why? Easy. We hate politics. Those good at politics generally are bad engineers but move up quickly. Good Engineer&#8217;s want practical flexible adaptable solutions that work instead of cutting corners or playing for political gain.</p>
<p>The short version is: few engineer&#8217;s are in politics because they&#8217;d rather fix the problems. There is a good despair.com saying&#8230; if you aren&#8217;t part of the solution there is good money in prolonging the problem. It&#8217;s so true it&#8217;s not even funny.</p>
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		<title>By: General Schematic</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7762</link>
		<dc:creator>General Schematic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7762</guid>
		<description>I think you have two factors at work here.  The first is the standard engineering (and for that matter "hard science") curricula and philosophical outlook.  Answers are knowable through a structured and rigorous methodology.  In the chaotic structure of the world, this provides a way to structure and organize the world into a logical construct.  Chaos is not good in engineering.  I think this both draws certain personalities as well as reinforces characteristics of those personalities.

The other is to look at the political regimes in the countries that are supporting the universities that oversee these curricula and the operating methodology.  Engineers are useful, they build the physical aspects of the society and enable the lofty visions of the ruling order.  They can be very effective and not challenge the regime.  The flipside is if engineering is one of the few allowed or encouraged educational paths, you are going to find engineers who are both a part of the regime (Iran) and those opposed to it with equal fervor (al-Qaeda).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have two factors at work here.  The first is the standard engineering (and for that matter &#8220;hard science&#8221;) curricula and philosophical outlook.  Answers are knowable through a structured and rigorous methodology.  In the chaotic structure of the world, this provides a way to structure and organize the world into a logical construct.  Chaos is not good in engineering.  I think this both draws certain personalities as well as reinforces characteristics of those personalities.</p>
<p>The other is to look at the political regimes in the countries that are supporting the universities that oversee these curricula and the operating methodology.  Engineers are useful, they build the physical aspects of the society and enable the lofty visions of the ruling order.  They can be very effective and not challenge the regime.  The flipside is if engineering is one of the few allowed or encouraged educational paths, you are going to find engineers who are both a part of the regime (Iran) and those opposed to it with equal fervor (al-Qaeda).</p>
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		<title>By: TLP</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7759</link>
		<dc:creator>TLP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7759</guid>
		<description>One idea (nothing to corroborate here, of course) would be that very religious or right-wing students feel they would never have their views accepted in the liberal arts and humanities world. Following the engineering path promises an academic and professional career where your views ans your work do not intersect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One idea (nothing to corroborate here, of course) would be that very religious or right-wing students feel they would never have their views accepted in the liberal arts and humanities world. Following the engineering path promises an academic and professional career where your views ans your work do not intersect.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7756</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7756</guid>
		<description>The middle-east has a long and impressive history of math, science, and engineering (for instance, our number system comes from there).  It is also true that other countries produce far more scientists and engineers than the US does.  And guess what, other countries tend to be less democratic than ours.  

If we don't produce more scientists and engineers, in 50 years they will be running a less democratic world and we'll be writing about it on blog sites that don't make any money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The middle-east has a long and impressive history of math, science, and engineering (for instance, our number system comes from there).  It is also true that other countries produce far more scientists and engineers than the US does.  And guess what, other countries tend to be less democratic than ours.  </p>
<p>If we don&#8217;t produce more scientists and engineers, in 50 years they will be running a less democratic world and we&#8217;ll be writing about it on blog sites that don&#8217;t make any money.</p>
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		<title>By: Bossi</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7751</link>
		<dc:creator>Bossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7751</guid>
		<description>One of my coworkers had been the head of Tehran's traffic engineering department right up until Pres. Ahmadinejad acquired that title &#38; booted her on account of being a woman.  I'm not 100% aware of why it didn't happen during his mayoral days, though, unless mayors don't actually wield that degree of power.

Speaking from PA, civil engineering was sometimes referred to as a "redneck major".  Many of the disciplines share some particular aspect with a rural / farming lifestyle: damming a stream to provide a household reservoir, frequent work with concrete, laying out the land &#38; its infrastructure, water collection &#38; drainage, waste management, soil types and qualities, etc.

I'll readily confirm that my class was more conservative as compared to other majors, but I'd say the class average was really more moderate; whereas other majors tended to be outright liberal.  There were certainly outliers: we had some students &#38; professors that leaned far left or far right.  As for myself: I consider myself an extreme moderate... I'm passionate about my beliefs, but I believe in some right-wing issues as well as some left-wing issues (and also some stances that don't fit in either wing).

I've had an infatuation with urban infrastructure planning. I've drawn up a slew of concepts in Google Earth of a network of transitways spanning cities, counties, states, and nations.  ...Yet I know none of it will get built unless I just so happen to take over the world.  So if that ever happens: now you all know my reason. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my coworkers had been the head of Tehran&#8217;s traffic engineering department right up until Pres. Ahmadinejad acquired that title &amp; booted her on account of being a woman.  I&#8217;m not 100% aware of why it didn&#8217;t happen during his mayoral days, though, unless mayors don&#8217;t actually wield that degree of power.</p>
<p>Speaking from PA, civil engineering was sometimes referred to as a &#8220;redneck major&#8221;.  Many of the disciplines share some particular aspect with a rural / farming lifestyle: damming a stream to provide a household reservoir, frequent work with concrete, laying out the land &amp; its infrastructure, water collection &amp; drainage, waste management, soil types and qualities, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll readily confirm that my class was more conservative as compared to other majors, but I&#8217;d say the class average was really more moderate; whereas other majors tended to be outright liberal.  There were certainly outliers: we had some students &amp; professors that leaned far left or far right.  As for myself: I consider myself an extreme moderate&#8230; I&#8217;m passionate about my beliefs, but I believe in some right-wing issues as well as some left-wing issues (and also some stances that don&#8217;t fit in either wing).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had an infatuation with urban infrastructure planning. I&#8217;ve drawn up a slew of concepts in Google Earth of a network of transitways spanning cities, counties, states, and nations.  &#8230;Yet I know none of it will get built unless I just so happen to take over the world.  So if that ever happens: now you all know my reason. <img src='http://www.howwedrive.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/06/14/political-engineers/#comment-7746</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=955#comment-7746</guid>
		<description>Why would a libertarian engineer become a traffic engineer, though?  They'd be working for the government, helping to impose the government's rules...wouldn't that be the last job that would be consistent with their values?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would a libertarian engineer become a traffic engineer, though?  They&#8217;d be working for the government, helping to impose the government&#8217;s rules&#8230;wouldn&#8217;t that be the last job that would be consistent with their values?</p>
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