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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Dangerous Cyclists&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mikey2gorgeous</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8851</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey2gorgeous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8851</guid>
		<description>@njkayaker ... yes, ultimately the courts can decide the culpability &#38; motorists are not penalised for things they cannot have prevented. However, the law clearly places the duty of care onto the motorist and as such leaves the court unhindered when blame is ascribed to a motorist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@njkayaker &#8230; yes, ultimately the courts can decide the culpability &amp; motorists are not penalised for things they cannot have prevented. However, the law clearly places the duty of care onto the motorist and as such leaves the court unhindered when blame is ascribed to a motorist.</p>
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		<title>By: njkayaker</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8839</link>
		<dc:creator>njkayaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8839</guid>
		<description>#19 "most states in the US have a “Due Care” law. For example, NY’s law says in part:"

Yes. Even without an explicit law, that duty exists. To put it another way, to assume that drivers don't have such a duty (even implicitly) is absurd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19 &#8220;most states in the US have a “Due Care” law. For example, NY’s law says in part:&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. Even without an explicit law, that duty exists. To put it another way, to assume that drivers don&#8217;t have such a duty (even implicitly) is absurd.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed W</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8809</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8809</guid>
		<description>Tom...go read the update on the university website, and then read Komanoff's study on Cars Suck.  Click on Research/Killed by Automobile.  I think you'll agree that his study is more on the order of propaganda that research.  

And please update your post afterward.  Well meaning people jump on something like this, yet such an obviously biased report only serves to increase conflicts on our roads.  It may make headlines, but it doesn't serve the very real needs of cyclists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom&#8230;go read the update on the university website, and then read Komanoff&#8217;s study on Cars Suck.  Click on Research/Killed by Automobile.  I think you&#8217;ll agree that his study is more on the order of propaganda that research.  </p>
<p>And please update your post afterward.  Well meaning people jump on something like this, yet such an obviously biased report only serves to increase conflicts on our roads.  It may make headlines, but it doesn&#8217;t serve the very real needs of cyclists.</p>
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		<title>By: azbikelaw</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8794</link>
		<dc:creator>azbikelaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8794</guid>
		<description>I, too, was drawn to the remarkable claim that "The study concluded that cyclists are the cause of less than 10 per cent of bike-car accidents in this study"
http://www.research.utoronto.ca/behind_the_headlines/smart-cycling/

if you scroll down there is a correction added a couple of days ago... "Dr. Cavacuiti has asked us to make readers aware that the Toronto Collision study was actually designed to look at the cause of bicycle/motorist collisions but not culpability. It is actually several studies conducted by the Charles Komanoff and member of the Right of Way organization in New York that concluded that concluded that cyclists were strictly culpable for less than 10 per cent of bike-car accidents."

One of the things I've noticed in looking at bike-car collision stats for our city (Phoenix, AZ) is that on crash reports police apparently  code a large number of "Other" violations for bicyclists compared to motorists (the ratio is like 5 to one!). It is my suspicion that the police in many cases just feel that the bicyclist must have done something wrong.
http://azbikelaw.org/blog/understanding-collision-summaries/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, was drawn to the remarkable claim that &#8220;The study concluded that cyclists are the cause of less than 10 per cent of bike-car accidents in this study&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.research.utoronto.ca/behind_the_headlines/smart-cycling/" rel="nofollow">http://www.research.utoronto.ca/behind_the_headlines/smart-cycling/</a></p>
<p>if you scroll down there is a correction added a couple of days ago&#8230; &#8220;Dr. Cavacuiti has asked us to make readers aware that the Toronto Collision study was actually designed to look at the cause of bicycle/motorist collisions but not culpability. It is actually several studies conducted by the Charles Komanoff and member of the Right of Way organization in New York that concluded that concluded that cyclists were strictly culpable for less than 10 per cent of bike-car accidents.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of the things I&#8217;ve noticed in looking at bike-car collision stats for our city (Phoenix, AZ) is that on crash reports police apparently  code a large number of &#8220;Other&#8221; violations for bicyclists compared to motorists (the ratio is like 5 to one!). It is my suspicion that the police in many cases just feel that the bicyclist must have done something wrong.<br />
<a href="http://azbikelaw.org/blog/understanding-collision-summaries/" rel="nofollow">http://azbikelaw.org/blog/understanding-collision-summaries/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim M</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8765</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8765</guid>
		<description>#7, most states in the US have a "Due Care" law. For example, NY's law says in part:

...every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7, most states in the US have a &#8220;Due Care&#8221; law. For example, NY&#8217;s law says in part:</p>
<p>&#8230;every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim M</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8764</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8764</guid>
		<description>Something seems fishy about the statistics. Crash causation is not a zero-sum game. Conventional wisdom says human factors (human error, illness, licit or illicit drugs, etc) contribute to 85% of crashes. Road and environmental factors (weather, road design and maintenance, glare, etc) are implicated in 30 to 50%, and vehicle factors are involved in 12%. These add to more than 100% because most crashes have more than one contributing factor. Take for example, a person that goes off the road while speeding in the rain on bald tires. One crash, three factors.

I could believe that drives made mistakes in 90% of crashes where human error played a role, but that doesn't mean cyclist error only accounts for 10%. There are many different ways that both road users can make mistakes that contribute to the crash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something seems fishy about the statistics. Crash causation is not a zero-sum game. Conventional wisdom says human factors (human error, illness, licit or illicit drugs, etc) contribute to 85% of crashes. Road and environmental factors (weather, road design and maintenance, glare, etc) are implicated in 30 to 50%, and vehicle factors are involved in 12%. These add to more than 100% because most crashes have more than one contributing factor. Take for example, a person that goes off the road while speeding in the rain on bald tires. One crash, three factors.</p>
<p>I could believe that drives made mistakes in 90% of crashes where human error played a role, but that doesn&#8217;t mean cyclist error only accounts for 10%. There are many different ways that both road users can make mistakes that contribute to the crash.</p>
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		<title>By: njkayaker</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8756</link>
		<dc:creator>njkayaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8756</guid>
		<description>#15 "I’d be willing to bet that bicycle operators might be better trained/educated than [their] counterparts in the USA."

I wonder if there is any formal training. I suspect that, since cycling is a normal/regular transportation activity (in the Netherlands, at least), new cyclists learn from other cyclists (maybe, even their parents) and also get more regular experience. That is, the culture might provide the education.

#15: "The rarity of cyclists in the USA is directly related to the lack of skill those on bikes now display, in my opinion."

I think it's more directly related (in the US): longer distances, cars are relatively cheaper, there's much more accommodation for keeping/parking cars, and that, in the culture, cycling is a recreational activity. People (adults at least) have to be motivated to ride before they have any motivation to get skill/training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15 &#8220;I’d be willing to bet that bicycle operators might be better trained/educated than [their] counterparts in the USA.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder if there is any formal training. I suspect that, since cycling is a normal/regular transportation activity (in the Netherlands, at least), new cyclists learn from other cyclists (maybe, even their parents) and also get more regular experience. That is, the culture might provide the education.</p>
<p>#15: &#8220;The rarity of cyclists in the USA is directly related to the lack of skill those on bikes now display, in my opinion.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s more directly related (in the US): longer distances, cars are relatively cheaper, there&#8217;s much more accommodation for keeping/parking cars, and that, in the culture, cycling is a recreational activity. People (adults at least) have to be motivated to ride before they have any motivation to get skill/training.</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia Bicycling Federation</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8746</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginia Bicycling Federation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8746</guid>
		<description>Does anyone have a link to the "analysis of Toronto police collision reports" being referred to by Dr. Cavacuiti?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone have a link to the &#8220;analysis of Toronto police collision reports&#8221; being referred to by Dr. Cavacuiti?</p>
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		<title>By: fred_dot_u</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8744</link>
		<dc:creator>fred_dot_u</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8744</guid>
		<description>njkayaker, I'd be willing to bet that bicycle operators might be better trained/educated than counterparts in the USA.

The rarity of cyclists in the USA is directly related to the lack of skill those on bikes now display, in my opinion. If more people were properly trained in safe cycling practices, there would be more and the safety figures would improve.

Many people think I'm crazy to be riding in traffic, but I've taken two LAB courses in the last two years. Prior to that, I felt I was an experienced cyclist, but then I became a skilled and educated cyclist and my safety increased.

Few people in the USA would be willing to believe that they should take a class to become a safe cyclist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>njkayaker, I&#8217;d be willing to bet that bicycle operators might be better trained/educated than counterparts in the USA.</p>
<p>The rarity of cyclists in the USA is directly related to the lack of skill those on bikes now display, in my opinion. If more people were properly trained in safe cycling practices, there would be more and the safety figures would improve.</p>
<p>Many people think I&#8217;m crazy to be riding in traffic, but I&#8217;ve taken two LAB courses in the last two years. Prior to that, I felt I was an experienced cyclist, but then I became a skilled and educated cyclist and my safety increased.</p>
<p>Few people in the USA would be willing to believe that they should take a class to become a safe cyclist.</p>
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		<title>By: njkayaker</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2009/08/25/dangerous-cyclists/#comment-8741</link>
		<dc:creator>njkayaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1147#comment-8741</guid>
		<description>#12 "Cars isolate people from others to the point where the cyclists aren’t human; they’re obstacles and hinderances to where the motorist wants to go. This de-humanization drives the inconsiderate actions of drivers."

I think that the problem in the US is that cyclists are relatively rare things for most drivers. It's an experience issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12 &#8220;Cars isolate people from others to the point where the cyclists aren’t human; they’re obstacles and hinderances to where the motorist wants to go. This de-humanization drives the inconsiderate actions of drivers.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that the problem in the US is that cyclists are relatively rare things for most drivers. It&#8217;s an experience issue.</p>
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