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	<title>Comments on: A Response to Hainline, Steisel, and Weinshall</title>
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	<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 16:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lois Carsbad</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24738</link>
		<dc:creator>Lois Carsbad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24738</guid>
		<description>Who are we to believe?  25 politically connected property owners or thousands of residents of all stripes? 

Let me see if I understand Hainline's logic: "Self-selected" survey results are bad, but self-reported observational accounts of accidents are okay? 

She is a dean at Brooklyn College.  That institution should be ashamed to have someone with such a fundamental lack of respect for the scientific process and a clear lack of knowledge about statistics on its faculty.  

I would have more respect for her if she simply admitted that she doesn't like it and wants it gone.  She's entitled to her own opinions, but not her own facts.  And the facts are in: PPW is much safer now than it was before for everyone.

Shame on you, Louise Hainline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who are we to believe?  25 politically connected property owners or thousands of residents of all stripes? </p>
<p>Let me see if I understand Hainline&#8217;s logic: &#8220;Self-selected&#8221; survey results are bad, but self-reported observational accounts of accidents are okay? </p>
<p>She is a dean at Brooklyn College.  That institution should be ashamed to have someone with such a fundamental lack of respect for the scientific process and a clear lack of knowledge about statistics on its faculty.  </p>
<p>I would have more respect for her if she simply admitted that she doesn&#8217;t like it and wants it gone.  She&#8217;s entitled to her own opinions, but not her own facts.  And the facts are in: PPW is much safer now than it was before for everyone.</p>
<p>Shame on you, Louise Hainline.</p>
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		<title>By: Geof Gee</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24726</link>
		<dc:creator>Geof Gee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24726</guid>
		<description>@Tom ... Minor complaint since I can use Google.  For those of us away from NYC it really would be helpful for a map or some other aide to picture what the environment is like.  And this is from a person who grew up in NYC and still visits family regularly.  

If anyone else is interested, I used these to refresh my memory and get myself up to speed ...

http://tinyurl.com/65g5hvw
http://tinyurl.com/4jvma4m

It should be no surprise that taking away a travel lane for autos produced slower travel and less severe injuries for all travelers.  For my tastes, that represents a real improvement.  

But if we take this further, I wonder whether the "protected/obscured" two-way bike lane is really the way to go?  Drivers seem to remain more aware of other cars than peds and bikes.  Wouldn't making this and surrounding roads bi-directional have a better effect on slowing motorized traffic?  Then you could put bike lanes on the other side of parked cars -- I often ride a recumbent while pulling a trailer with my kids, so this design really bothers me -- making one (much) more visible at intersections, plowing/debris clearing more consistent, as well as give greater flexiblity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom &#8230; Minor complaint since I can use Google.  For those of us away from NYC it really would be helpful for a map or some other aide to picture what the environment is like.  And this is from a person who grew up in NYC and still visits family regularly.  </p>
<p>If anyone else is interested, I used these to refresh my memory and get myself up to speed &#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/65g5hvw" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/65g5hvw</a><br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/4jvma4m" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/4jvma4m</a></p>
<p>It should be no surprise that taking away a travel lane for autos produced slower travel and less severe injuries for all travelers.  For my tastes, that represents a real improvement.  </p>
<p>But if we take this further, I wonder whether the &#8220;protected/obscured&#8221; two-way bike lane is really the way to go?  Drivers seem to remain more aware of other cars than peds and bikes.  Wouldn&#8217;t making this and surrounding roads bi-directional have a better effect on slowing motorized traffic?  Then you could put bike lanes on the other side of parked cars &#8212; I often ride a recumbent while pulling a trailer with my kids, so this design really bothers me &#8212; making one (much) more visible at intersections, plowing/debris clearing more consistent, as well as give greater flexiblity.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24719</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24719</guid>
		<description>Great post, Tom.

These people just want to be able to drive too fast and park quickly, as they always have done—righteous huffing and puffing doesn't fool many. Even they seem to know that's impolitic to come out and say that they want these special privileges, privileges that are contrary to both the best interests of the neighborhood and the STATED desire of the majority of residents of that neighborhood. The DOT has been to Park Slope how many times? Seven? The Community Board process was open and lengthy. I do not know how many meetings Steisel, Hainline and Weinshall attended. The costs of the lane were low and now the results are proven. And STILL they crow. 

Not paying attention during the process and trying to use political and media clout to roll it back ex post facto? Well, that's entitlement at its absolute worst. 

Change is hard for people so I think we are going to be hearing this crap until this generation goes to the great free parking structure in the sky (or to Florida).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Tom.</p>
<p>These people just want to be able to drive too fast and park quickly, as they always have done—righteous huffing and puffing doesn&#8217;t fool many. Even they seem to know that&#8217;s impolitic to come out and say that they want these special privileges, privileges that are contrary to both the best interests of the neighborhood and the STATED desire of the majority of residents of that neighborhood. The DOT has been to Park Slope how many times? Seven? The Community Board process was open and lengthy. I do not know how many meetings Steisel, Hainline and Weinshall attended. The costs of the lane were low and now the results are proven. And STILL they crow. </p>
<p>Not paying attention during the process and trying to use political and media clout to roll it back ex post facto? Well, that&#8217;s entitlement at its absolute worst. </p>
<p>Change is hard for people so I think we are going to be hearing this crap until this generation goes to the great free parking structure in the sky (or to Florida).</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Barfowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24642</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Barfowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24642</guid>
		<description>Oh, whoops. Right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, whoops. Right.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric McClure</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24639</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric McClure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24639</guid>
		<description>Marty Barfowitz meant "minority" opinion in that last sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty Barfowitz meant &#8220;minority&#8221; opinion in that last sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Barfowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24637</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Barfowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24637</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In a self-selected survey of over 3,000 Brooklynites conducted by Councilmembers Lander and Levin, most people—bikers were the only exception—reported feeling less safe after the bike lane was installed (Ref. 2).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My god, these people are so awful, divisive and, well, just kind of seem to be lying. 

1. The Lander/Levin survey showed that the vast majority of the community believes this project is functioning well. Even among residents living between 8th Avenue and Prospect Park, the majority are in favor of the project and perceive the street to be safer. 

2. "Bikers" are not some separate, monolithic class of people who come from outside of "the community" and only transport themselves by bike. Every biker becomes a walker as soon as he or she gets to where they're going and locks up their bike. I'm a biker but I also drive a car on PPW and walk (and I even used to take the bus before they got rid of it). 

Hainline and her politically-connected pals can try all they want to pretend that they are "the community" and cyclists are "the other," but they increasingly must see that they hold a majority opinion and they do not accurately represent their own neighborhood or even their own street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In a self-selected survey of over 3,000 Brooklynites conducted by Councilmembers Lander and Levin, most people—bikers were the only exception—reported feeling less safe after the bike lane was installed (Ref. 2).</p></blockquote>
<p>My god, these people are so awful, divisive and, well, just kind of seem to be lying. </p>
<p>1. The Lander/Levin survey showed that the vast majority of the community believes this project is functioning well. Even among residents living between 8th Avenue and Prospect Park, the majority are in favor of the project and perceive the street to be safer. </p>
<p>2. &#8220;Bikers&#8221; are not some separate, monolithic class of people who come from outside of &#8220;the community&#8221; and only transport themselves by bike. Every biker becomes a walker as soon as he or she gets to where they&#8217;re going and locks up their bike. I&#8217;m a biker but I also drive a car on PPW and walk (and I even used to take the bus before they got rid of it). </p>
<p>Hainline and her politically-connected pals can try all they want to pretend that they are &#8220;the community&#8221; and cyclists are &#8220;the other,&#8221; but they increasingly must see that they hold a majority opinion and they do not accurately represent their own neighborhood or even their own street.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24635</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24635</guid>
		<description>Tom -- You should know by now that when people say "safety" they mean "my convenience."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom &#8212; You should know by now that when people say &#8220;safety&#8221; they mean &#8220;my convenience.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: thf</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24634</link>
		<dc:creator>thf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24634</guid>
		<description>That perceived safety decreased for all users but bikers in the Councilmember's study is not a correct interpretation of the findings. The survey was in fact not even broken down that way in the analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That perceived safety decreased for all users but bikers in the Councilmember&#8217;s study is not a correct interpretation of the findings. The survey was in fact not even broken down that way in the analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: eveostay</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24630</link>
		<dc:creator>eveostay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24630</guid>
		<description>Great post.  Besides being safer, PPW now also handles more commuters during the peak hours than it did before the bike lane was added.  

This news is from page 9 of the latest DOT report: http://nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/20110120_ppw.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  Besides being safer, PPW now also handles more commuters during the peak hours than it did before the bike lane was added.  </p>
<p>This news is from page 9 of the latest DOT report: <a href="http://nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/20110120_ppw.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/20110120_ppw.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.howwedrive.com/2011/01/20/a-response-to-hainline-steisel-and-weinshall/#comment-24629</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.howwedrive.com/?p=1691#comment-24629</guid>
		<description>The travel lanes on PPW remain the same width they were before the modification. There was originally a plan to narrow them but that was dropped. Those complaining that the road now feels less safe are proving the case for traffic calming. The new configuration does make the roadway feel more crowded. There is no denying that. That is of course the point. Drivers feel that road is less expansive and consequently feel "less safe" and they slow down, which ultimately makes the road safer for all users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The travel lanes on PPW remain the same width they were before the modification. There was originally a plan to narrow them but that was dropped. Those complaining that the road now feels less safe are proving the case for traffic calming. The new configuration does make the roadway feel more crowded. There is no denying that. That is of course the point. Drivers feel that road is less expansive and consequently feel &#8220;less safe&#8221; and they slow down, which ultimately makes the road safer for all users.</p>
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